Ep. 1 - Why coaching + social change?

Transcript

Jeremy Blanchard: Welcome to the Wider Roots podcast. A show about how we can use the power of coaching and personal transformation to help create systemic social change and bring about a more life affirming world.

Since this is the first episode, I wanted to take some time to introduce myself and let you know what you can expect from this project and this podcast.

[00:00:32] What this show is about

Jeremy Blanchard: So hello. My name is Jeremy Blanchard. I use he/him pronouns. And I am a leadership coach and I've been supporting leaders, activists, organizers, and folks doing social change work for over a decade now.

I got my start doing climate activism when I was in college. And these days, my main contribution to social movement work is through my work as a coach supporting leaders.

I remember when I first heard about coaching, I was initially very skeptical. It's like, what is this? Uh, I don't know. I don't know if this seems kind of weird. And then the first time I stumbled my way into experiencing coaching. I didn't have words for it, but I felt like, wow, this is so different than anything I've encountered before. And it could sense something was opening up in me that felt different than therapy. It felt different than the way I would talk with friends. And I immediately just wanted more of it.

And pretty soon after I started experiencing coaching and the difference it was making in my life. I just immediately wanted other activists and organizers, I knew to have access to it. I was like, oh, this, this can make a difference. And how do we get this out to more people? And that's what led me on the 10-year journey that I've been on.

I sensed that there was. Uh, potential that it could make an impact for teams, for organizations and really for our, our movements as a whole. And I didn't hear a lot of people talking about that.

Most of the coach training, I received lacked any kind of political analysis or focus on what the world was going through, the crises were experiencing.

There's a lot in the coaching industry that you can find that's about how you personally can be more fulfilled and how you personally can live the life you love. And I kept asking myself, okay, but where are the people who are talking about the climate crisis? Where are we talking about white supremacy culture and racial justice. Uh, can we take this beyond just me and my personal fulfillment and learn to join together and work collectively towards the wellbeing of the whole?

And so now a decade later, I'm starting this project with the intention and the hope that it will serve as a resource for coaches like me who were wondering about these questions of how we take this personal transformation work and bring it forward in service of the collective wellbeing and the collective crises and issues that we're facing in this moment.

So this project is definitely for coaches who have a social justice mission and dedication underneath what they are doing. It's also for leaders who are using coaching skills or want to use coaching skills and want to do it anymore collective oriented way. It's for facilitators consultants, other folks in this broader ecosystem who, um, really care about personal and systemic change.

There's a quote from Margaret Wheatley that speaks really directly to why this project is important to me and what I hope it contributes in the world and why I think coaching and social change really fit together.

She says. "We need leaders and coaches that can help us embody the best qualities of being human compassion generosity, kindness, integrity, connection."

And for me, that's the possibility that, uh, has me shop over and over again to coaching for social change. I believe that there's this unique magic that happens during a good coaching session where someone's full spirit and their best qualities have a chance to show up and they get the chance to see that in themselves and then learn how to bring that forward into the world consistently.

And through that they tap into their deepest longings and their vision for the future. Which we need, if we're going to address what we're facing in this moment as a society.

So there's a few different ways that I see us going about this exploration.

The first is the impact of coaching. So looking at how can coaching support Changemakers and social movements. I think that's the most foundational one and maybe in some ways the easiest to answer. When these change-makers and teams and organizations get this kind of support, how does it free them up to be more effective in their work?

Another level that we can come at this from is looking at how we coach. So I'm thinking about the methods that we use with our clients, with the people we're supporting to bring about their growth and support them in their own transformation. How can the social and political and ecological realities that we're facing actually inform the way we do our coaching and personal transformation work, rather than them being totally de-politicized or individualistic, which is so common.

And then finally, what does it look like to place our commitment to the wellbeing of the whole at the center of a coaching conversation or coaching relationship. And for me, that's different again than the individualistic tendencies that we often see in the coaching world, where it's just about me and my wellbeing. How do we shift that to the collective wellbeing?

So in some ways I'm thinking of this as a research project that I'm doing in public so that we can all benefit from it. I want this to be a platform for the wisdom teachers, the coaches, the spiritual teachers, the movement leaders who are really thinking deeply about this intersection of personal transformation and systemic social change.

One of my part-time obsessions over the last many years has been to collect all of the resources that I can find at this intersection. So I've got an enormous spreadsheet full of books and articles and teachers and training programs that are helping explore this connection between personal and systemic change. And my hope is that I can bring these forward through the voices that we have on the podcast, but also share them in the newsletter and, really help get these resources into more people's hands. So if you go to WiderRoots.com, you can sign up for the newsletter where I'm going to be sharing a lot of the resources that don't fit into an episode.

A little bit about the name, Wider Roots. This name is inspired by redwood trees, which you may know are incredibly resilient through even really big storms. And it's not because their roots are deep. It is because their roots are very wide. And they interconnect with one another and create a really stable base. And I took inspiration from that in a few ways.

One is, first just roots in general, our reminder to be connected to what nourishes us. What anchors us and what's our vision.

And it's an invitation also to widen our roots so that we can stay connected amidst storms and act in service to collective change.

And finally it's an invitation to examine the root causes of the systems of separation and domination that we live in.

[00:08:26] Intro to my conversation with Jess

Jeremy Blanchard: So with all that in place, I want to lead us into the conversation that you're about to hear between me and my dear friend and longtime collaborator Jess Serrante. She's a climate activist. She's a leadership coach for climate activists. She's a facilitator and she is a podcaster.

And I'll say this. Coaching is something that I can geek out on endlessly. And Jess is one of my favorite people to geek out with. We've been having these kinds of conversations about coaching and justice and how to bring those two worlds together for years and years now.

And I wanted to have her on for this intro episode so that we could share the energy of those conversations with you, as we set up more about where are we going? What are some of the questions we want to explore in this podcast?

I love this conversation with Jess because we got to explore our vision for what it would be like if coaching skills and support and personal transformation work was even more widely available inside social movement spaces. And the kind of compassion, the kind of courage, the kind of vulnerability that that would help cultivate.

And we also talked a lot about the coaching industry and how it's really weird sometimes, and really doesn't resonate with us. And how we feel like outsiders from that particular world and yet what keeps us in the game, why we still value this as a mode of support.

And so with all that, I want to say thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. This project is a big labor of love on my part, and I really hope it makes a difference and helps you on your journey. So without further ado, let's dive into the conversation with Jess.

[00:10:14] Jeremy's coaching origin story

Jess Serrante: Hi.

Jeremy Blanchard: Hi Jess.

Jess Serrante: What's What's up buddy?

Jeremy Blanchard: Yo. Thanks for doing this.

Jess Serrante: I'm so excited.

Jeremy Blanchard: So, we wanted to talk because we've been talking about this for a decade. A long time. And, uh, we figured that if we sat down together and did the thing that we do we would thereby introduce some of what this podcast.

Jess Serrante: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's been many, many long couch talks and road trips and such that have planted some of the seeds for this. Yeah. totally. So. Yeah, Um, well, I want to just say that I'm stoked that you're doing this, because, I mean, and you, you know this, but like, um, I think it's a really important set of topics that you're exploring in Wider Roots.

Wider Roots.

Radio voice. Um.

Yeah, maybe that's a good place for us to start. Actually, Is like, um, what the topics are that you want to be exploring in this. Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Blanchard: Yeah, I'm thinking about what draws us both to this topic.

Jess Serrante: Hmm.

Jeremy Blanchard: And I think at least part of it, there's like two angles that come to mind. One is both of us being organizers for a long time, being in social movement spaces, and um, for me coming across coaching, running into someone at a climate activist training, our dear friend Zo Tobi, who, just started coach training, I had no idea what coaching was back then, sounded pretty weird, I was immediately skeptical of it, and uh, ending up in a conversation with him, where I left the conversation feeling like that was not advice. That was not a friend conversation. That was not therapy. I don't know what it was. What did you just do What you was was but What

Jess Serrante: I remember feeling that at the beginning too.

Jeremy Blanchard: But like, what was that? I feel like my brain just like got a massage and my heart is more like, I don't even, didn't really have words for it then, but being taken by it. Struck by it. Uh, and very impacted. And started working with him. I was like his first paying client back in the day. And

Jess Serrante: You were Zo's first client?

Jeremy Blanchard: I was Zo's first paying client.

Jess Serrante: That's awesome.

Jeremy Blanchard: Paying him a whopping 25 dollars per session. Whoa! And, I just got so much out of it. I don't think I've ever said it this way before, but it was the answer to questions I didn't even know I had.

It was like a way into, sustainability and how I was showing up in my activism instead of nearing burnout. It was the way into, oh, I have some things I really want to be focused on instead of what's like a little bit easier or more comfortable or familiar.

Um, and very quickly, uh, I think as is my nature, I was like, I'm getting so much out of this, how do I help others have this? Um, and yeah, I could immediately see all the organizers I knew cared so much and were so wearing themselves out and so like strained and worn thin. And I could just, I had this, longing this vision emerging inside me of like, God, wouldn't it be amazing if these skills for like resilience, connectedness to self connectedness to others, connectedness to your values was everywhere in social movement spaces.

Jess Serrante: Yeah.

Jeremy Blanchard: Yeah so I think that's the heart is like, how do we, as people who are dedicated to a more just, life affirming world, how do we resource ourselves, how do we show up and bring our full humanity, our full brilliance, our full selves forward. Yeah.

[00:14:24] What would it be like if we all had these skills?

Jess Serrante: Yeah. And What you just said makes me think of something we were talking about last night, about uh, a conversation that I had with my mentor Joanna Macy and her talking about, um, Our world, as a world or as a culture, our readiness for the change that's necessary for us to avert the worst of the climate crisis, to move toward more just and loving ways of living together.

And the thing that she said to me was, you know, one of the things that worries me the most is that we're not showing signs of being evolutionarily ready to make that change. Like, we know what we need to do. We, I mean, we don't know exactly how to do it, but we know what we need to do, but collectively we're not showing signs of being ready to do it.

And for me, that is, that's a huge reason why this intersection of topics of coaching and spirituality and social change work and movements, like, why they all come together. Because we're talking about, like, how do we get, how do we get ready?

Jeremy Blanchard: Yeah.

Jess Serrante: You know, and some of us are ready. And fully present, but even our movements, we can see it in the dysfunction in our movements and our organizations, cancel culture, the way that people come for each other when we really should be finding ways to love each other and move through conflict in ways that are generative, to build coalition and organize well.

Like some of the most gratifying moments in my career as a coach have been moments where I'm supporting my clients, these brilliant leaders, to show up in integrity within their organization.

Jeremy Blanchard: Yeah.

Jess Serrante: You know, I think about like, I mean, I know we both think about it this way, but like that's the microcosm, is like one person showing up with integrity within their organization.

And then there's the larger picture, which is like all of us having the skills to do that. And how would that transform our movements?

Jeremy Blanchard: Yeah. Right?

Jess Serrante: I think those were some of our earliest conversations about this, like, when I first got involved with the coaching world, which you were a part of bringing me into.

Jeremy Blanchard: Yeah.

Jess Serrante: Um, the, the question or the like, excitement in me and us and many of our friends that all came into all of our like organizer friends who came into training as coaches at the same time together was like, what would our movements be like if we all had these skills?

Yeah. Oh my god right? Yeah, it would be so different!

Jeremy Blanchard: Totally, which speaks to there's some longing there that's like, more and more and more of us, I think are sensing into the places where that full human spirit, like qualities that we most want to demonstrate our values, our vision, like the vision of the world we want to see is not fully present in the way we are going about making change.

Like, I love that you brought in the word spirituality for this because I think it's taken a long, like a while for me to lean into the fact that that's a big part of what this work is we're doing in the sense of, tapping into the qualities of humanity that we like most want to see demonstrated that we would love to see demonstrated widely.

Yeah, it makes me think about the quote from Margaret Wheatley.

As I was getting ready for this podcast, um, was listening to a podcast from Margaret Wheatley talking about, uh, We need coaches and leaders who can help us bring forth the best qualities of humanity in the midst of chaos and collapse.

Jess Serrante: Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

Jeremy Blanchard: And not going to be everybody.

Jess Serrante: Yeah.

Jeremy Blanchard: We don't need everybody to do that, but we need the people who feel that call. We need more people to be dedicated to that cause because amidst collapse, amidst the like, Yeah, destruction that we're seeing. We uh, people who remind us how to be together.

Jess Serrante: Yeah.

Jeremy Blanchard: Yeah.

Jess Serrante: Right, so we don't lose each other when we are losing other things, because we're going to lose a lot. to Very likely.

Jeremy Blanchard: Yeah. .

[00:18:40] Who this is for and what we'll be exploring

Jess Serrante: Do you want to tell me what Wider Roots is about?

Jeremy Blanchard: Yeah, I do.

Um, So, it's for coaches first. It's also for leaders. It's also for anyone wanting to bring a more spiritually grounded way into their social change work.

Who want to transform the way we're showing up in movement spaces and obviously beyond that too, but first and foremost social change spaces.

Who want to see that transform to a more compassionate, more courageous, more centered, more vulnerable way of showing up. That's who it's for. Hell Yeah.

Jess Serrante: What are we gonna be exploring?

Jeremy Blanchard: We're to be exploring what movement space is like. what we're longing for more there. We're going to be exploring, um, the coaching side of it too. Like, both you and I come from coaching schools that are not particularly social justice oriented, right?

Jess Serrante: Yeah.

Jeremy Blanchard: Like, I don't care so much about transforming the coaching industry, but I do care that there is a space within coaching that has, like, that there's somewhere that people who are thinking this way, who have the systemic transformation commitment can go in the coaching world in a way that aligns with their values.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's maybe less like a, like a crusade to transform all these places, like, uh, and more who's like already called to this kind of transformation?

There are many ways we go about this kind of transformation, right? We can do it through facilitation. We can do it through restorative justice, transformative justice. We can do it through song and like actual spiritual community. We can do it through, meditation, mindfulness, whole spiritual traditions.

Um, coaching one of the ways that you and I have come to, to like access that kind of transformation. And I think for me, it's about carving out a space where people who are called to that kind of transformative work and at the individual transformational level and the systemic transformation level yeah --can rally, can find each other, can like explore and deepen into these topics, because that's what I wanted. Like when I started on this path 10 years ago, I was like, who's, who, who's doing both of these? And there was very few people doing both of both of these

Jess Serrante: Oh, totally. That was my experience too.

Like, planting a seed and holding open a space where people who see what we see or are interested in these topics can realize that there's a community.

Jeremy Blanchard: Yeah.

[00:21:29] Coaching industry & how we don't see ourselves in it

Jess Serrante: Let me ask you another question. Okay. Yeah. Um, you know, we've talked many times about, um, one of the both exciting and frustrating things about being social justice coaches is feeling like there's this massive coaching world, this massive industry that surrounds us, but we don't see ourselves in lot of it.

There's an extreme that the field has come to that it does make me pause when I meet someone in the wild for the first time and I tell them that I'm a coach. Because every, I think a lot of people have associations with that kind of like, um, ignorant to their privilege, pushy, individualized solutions.

It feels to me like a lot of the industry has taken what is actually a lot of beauty uh, at the heart of this work, which is about people really coming into their autonomy in their lives, like recognizing the agency that we have to create change in the world and create change in our own lives and how empowering that can be. But taking that to the extreme is like pulling us out of the context of being creatures of the collective and belonging to a world and, like, purpose beyond my desires, my personal, like, whims, desires, cravings, even.

Jeremy Blanchard: Mm-Hmm. Mm-Hmm. Yeah.

Jess Serrante: The word that I just wrote down was control. Like the world is so chaotic. It's hard to, it's, like, it's, it's hard to live in this world in this moment, whether you are like, actively in the practice of acknowledging and looking at the unraveling that we're facing and understand thinking about the like systemic root causes of that or not you're feeling.

Jeremy Blanchard: Yeah

Jess Serrante: The presence of unraveling the acceleration of injustice of ecological collapse all of that and it makes so much sense to me that so many of us are grasping for control. You know, and in some ways it feels like the coaching industry has fallen without a larger systemic analysis about what's happening on our planet in this moment, what is this like spiritual evolutionary moment that we're in has fallen into, satisfying the desires that a lot of us have, which is to like have some semblance of control, right?

And the way that that looks in terms of money and power and influence and we're like putting those things, I mean those things all matter. But, um, situating them them outside of the, like, larger, uh, uh, we need a we need a collective shift context, you know?

Jeremy Blanchard: Yeah, It makes me think about security. Yeah. Right? Control and security. Yeah. Right? Like, what's underneath control? I want to have control so I be safe. So you can I'll contract, you know, so that I can, um, support and, uh, take care of, me and mine.

Jess Serrante: Which we all want.

Jeremy Blanchard: We all want that. Yeah, there's like a, there's a, there's a root in there that is meaningful, right? Of like, oh, I I, care about my life. I care about the people close to me. So there's a meaningful place that that comes from.

And the longing that I know we both have is like right and it's absolutely incomplete if it stops there if it it stops at, let me take care of myself.

It's, um, practically incomplete because we are bound up in one another and there's just no way to actually separate my well being from the well being of others, it's gonna come back.

Jess Serrante: Right.

Jeremy Blanchard: And it's spiritually incomplete, you know It's like your your heart is incomplete to have cut yourself off and just build up bigger walls and like a safer fortress amidst, you know, uh destruction.

Jess Serrante: Yeah.

[00:26:03] Why we find coaching so powerful in movement work

Jeremy Blanchard: Um, I'd love to talk about why we stay it.

Like Like why, I think there's the philosophical like big picture, like what's our theory of change? that we've hit on a little bit, but there's also like a real, in the moment we're having either a coaching conversation or the same kind of transformational work in, like, group spaces. There's something that we experience that lights us up, that has a say yes, this is worth investing in like this is where I want to put my to support people I'm curious I'm curious what you would say about that.

Jess Serrante: Yeah, the, what comes to mind immediately is that I am in love with the people that I serve in my work.

Yeah, like, I mean, it's changed over the years, but now the group that I work with mostly is women doing climate justice work. And I just fucking love them so much. I mean these people are so brave, and so tuned in to what's happening on our planet right now, using every bit of their brilliance to try to like, leverage change.

Jeremy Blanchard: Amen.

Jess Serrante: There was a moment years ago where I got it, that the only way that we bring that just life sustaining, life affirming way of being into, the, more dominant paradigm is by being it. By like us living it. There is absolutely no other way that it comes into being in the world.

Like we have to be living demonstrations of that just life sustaining life affirming way with every interaction that we have with the way that we live our lives.

It's really exciting to me as a coach to get to support people to be that microcosm of the world that they want in the way that they show up because that is the way that the larger cultural shift emerges. And I also feel like I often get to empower people to support other people to be those seeds, right? And it's this like ripple effect.

Jeremy Blanchard: Yeah.

Yeah.

Jess Serrante: Yeah.

Yeah..

Jeremy Blanchard: Like, there's a theory of change that says we believe that in order to bring about the world we want to see, we have to show up as the compassionate, forgiving, centered, grounded, earth-connected, ancestor-connected, inclusive, etc. ways. We have to show up in that while creating and and living into that future.

Jess Serrante: Yeah,

Jeremy Blanchard: I want to build on something you're saying, right? There's the people that we're so dedicated to supporting. We care so much about movements for social justice. We care so much about the people who are dedicating themselves to it. Like that's at the end of the day, one of the big reasons we're here.

And I think there's also a piece in here about like transformational work or like work that has us living more in line with our deepest values.

hmm.

And frees us up to be able to live in alignment. I think there's healing work that's really important on the way there. There's learning how to relate to our bodies and somatic work, right? There's mindfulness work. There's all these different ways into that.

So whether it's coaching or not, There's this like deep longing to, um, be a part of people's transformation.

And I think for me, and I probably for both of us, that one on one or small group setting is where we've just encountered so much transformational possibility.

Like we've been in conversations with clients where we see someone get past something that has been holding them back for a long and find a way into a new way of showing up toward their work or towards their lives or towards their personal sustainability or towards their community. It can be at any level in a way that's just like, heart opening, and like, you know, brings us to tears sometimes, yeah. Right?

To see, like, again, I keep coming back to this phrase, like, best qualities of humanity, like, we get to see someone's humanity shine forth. And I know there are other ways to do that beyond this one on one and small group and coaching-esque approach.

But this is the one that I have found, you know, the one that I has impacted me and is therefore the one that I'm most called to bring to others.

Um, so I think there's something in there about like, why stick with the coaching modality when there's so many weird things going on in the field is like, this intimacy of a container where you're meeting someone right where they're at. And you're ushering them, you're guiding, escorting them, you're standing alongside them as they open into their next level of expression, growth, and contribution.

Jess Serrante: What thrills me as an activist first is getting to be alongside someone when they're ready to be, um, reaching out into the world. I love getting to be with someone when It's like that dance between the inner world and the outer world and the impact that they want to um, just like really it's really satisfying.

Jeremy Blanchard: Yeah. Yep. Amen.

[00:31:52] Being in community with one another as practitioners

Jess Serrante: Yeah, I think, I mean, I'm so excited to get to listen to the conversations that you have and to continue to have these kinds of conversations with you. I think there's another piece about like being in community with one another as practitioners in this space, because for me, this is like profoundly spiritual work.

And I can forget that sometimes. In the, like, frustrating slog of trying to, like, have a business. You know, building an online presence and a website and all the shit that I, like, wish I didn't have to do.

Like, I can just sort of, lose sight of the like, energetic core of why this all matters. And so I'm excited because it feels like** lighting a candle in the dark here** with these conversations. Where we can come back to again and again, how endlessly thrilling it is to think about what it is for us to fully, spiritually, somatically, creatively embody the kind of leadership that we want for our world in this moment.

And creating spaces for us to remember what it's really about, why we do this work, and how we, um, how we as practitioners stay aligned with what matters to us in a world that's really fucking noisy and and a field that and culture that wants to like pull us into paying attention to different things, right?

Like how many times have both of us been like sidetracked? By like the right ways to market the right ways to have a business who you're supposed to be as a coach.

I'm, so glad I mean it's it's never over right but i'm so glad now like 10 years into this work to not be so easily thwarted by that because at the beginning it was hard.

I constantly felt like I needed to be someone else like I was doing everything wrong. And over time, we've come to like deepen our trust in who we are and what we have to offer. But I think that that happens in community.

And that's a piece of why this podcast is so important, because Jeremy, something we had that a lot of coaches don't, is that we had a moment. When we came into this work together, we had via Zo Tobi, the coach that brought us both into coaching and beloved friend, this community of young activists turned coaches who all fell in love with this work together and we were swimming in these kinds of questions together, which I think if we hadn't had that, I don't know that I would still be doing this work.

So hopefully this existing and being like a beacon of like your people, you person with your heart burning for change in the world and that's what made you fall in love with the possibility of this to like see that your people are out there, that we're here and that there's a lot of us. You know, like maybe we'll, I hope, my prayer for this project is that it'll keep people in it.

Jeremy Blanchard: That's right. Oh. Thank you. Yeah. That's my deepest hope for too, is that it's a rallying point broadly, but then there's people who want to come in and connect with one another in some way through, um, whatever means we can get create.

Jess Serrante: Yeah, I mean, I'm, I don't know if you've chosen this for yourself, but convinced this is a part of your purpose is to like, create a space for us to be together and think about this together because it's so deeply fulfilling. And um, Yeah, maybe I'll stay in the game because it it matters.

Jeremy Blanchard: Amen.

[00:35:55] Closing

Jeremy Blanchard: Will you tell us about the, uh, will you give us a little, like, preview, Jess, of the, uh, podcast you're working on?

Oh, yeah.

This is a, a podcasting friendship.

Jess Serrante: Yeah totally. Um, yeah, so I'm working on a podcast, called We Are the Great Turning, which is a 10 episode series about climate change and spirituality and possibility, and it's a series of conversations between myself and my beloved, soon to be 95 year old mentor, Joanna Macy, who is a spiritual giant in this world. She's a Buddhist. She's a systems thinker. She's a, deep ecologist. She created a body of work called The Work That Reconnects. Um, but in this podcast, the two of us are talking about what is it to be alive in this time. Yeah.

Yeah really excited to put this out in the world.

Jeremy Blanchard: Me too.

Jess Serrante: Hahaha.

Jeremy Blanchard: Yeah, it feels so of the same spirit as this podcast. Cause we're both dedicated to the same mission. And you've been a huge part of my podcast, this podcast, Wider Roots coming into being, and it's been such a joy to get to stand beside you as you're like very long and in depth project is coming forward. And to see the like absolutely heartbreakingly beautiful conversations that You got to have Joanna.

So, um, I'm excited to have you back on the show many times, uh, including, when the We Are The Great Turning Podcast comes out.

Jess Serrante: Cool.

Yay.

Thank you.

Jeremy Blanchard: Love you.

Jess Serrante: I love you. I'm so glad you're doing this.

Jeremy Blanchard: Thanks. Glad we're doing it together in some ways.

Jess Serrante: We are.

Jeremy Blanchard: In so many ways.

Thanks friend.

Thank you so much for listening.

Episode two is available now in your podcast feed. It's with my buddy Mazin Jamal. And we get to dive into some really meaningful conversations about creating belonging in our movement spaces.

Mazin Jamal: How can we create such rich belonging that there's room to challenge each other without fearing that we're going to be kicked out of the group?

Jeremy Blanchard: And episode three comes out in two weeks. So keep an eye out for that and make sure you subscribe in your podcast app.

If you'd like to tap into the resources I've collected at this intersection of personal and systemic transformation, including books, videos, and training programs, you can head over to WiderRoots.com to sign up for the free newsletter.

And you can email me at podcast@widerroots.com. I would really love to hear what's resonating with you. And if there are any questions you have that you'd love to see us explore on the show.

Thanks to wild choir for the theme music for the show. You're currently listening to their song, Remember Me, which will play us out. See you next time.

Jess Serrante: You're listening to Wider Roots.

Jeremy Blanchard: You're listening to the Wider Roots Podcast.

Podcast

Jess Serrante: My name is Jeremy Blanchard. I'll be your guide and your captain today.

Jeremy Blanchard: Please keep your seatbelts on, follow all crew member instructions.